Based on the article, Trinity of Trouble, do you believe that the Son was created?

    Having read your article (Trinity of Trouble) Posted on May 5, 2017 by YRM I should like to ask you whether you believe Jesus is God or created Son of God. In John 1.1, if you master the Greek Biblical language, there is no doubt that Jesus is God. It is not by coincidence that the New Testament was written in Greek because it’s so specific that it leaves no doubt about the correct meaning. If you believe that Jesus is God them my question is, are there (extra-large size gods) and (small-size gods) or one in union, Trinity. Only idolatrous gods are created like the 12 Gods of Olympus. I would really like to have your opinion on this as (Trinity of Trouble) doesn’t say much.

    We believe that Yahshua the Messiah was the firstborn of creation and that only the Father Yahweh has immortality (i.e., existed from the beginning), see 1Timothy 6:16. Clear evidence for this can be found in Colossians 1:15. Paul states there, “Who is the image of the invisible El, the firstborn of every creature.” Paul here is referring to the Messiah and confirms that He was the “firstborn of every creature.” The word “firstborn” comes from Greek prototokos. According to Strong’s, prototokos literally means, “first-born.” The Thayer’s Greek Lexicon states, “…of Christ, the first born of all creation.” The word “creature” comes from the Greek ktisis and refers to “original formation,” Strong’s. Thayer’s Greek Lexicon states, “…creation, that is, a thing created; used of individual things, beings, a creature, a creation.” Based on the Greek, Colossians 1:15 is literally stating that Messiah was the firstborn of creation. This obviously implies that He had a beginning and confirms that He and the Father are separate beings, especially since only the Father has immortality.

Another passage is Revelation 3:14, “…These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of El.” Yahshua speaking here to John confirms that He was the beginning of Yahweh’s creation. The word “beginning” comes from the Greek arche and means, “…a commencement, or (concretely) chief (in various applications of order, time, place, or rank),” Strong’s. While it may be possible to define ache as referring to rank, based on the context, it’s more likely a reference to a commencement in time. This is nearly how all Greek translators have understood this passage.

We also find evidence for Yahshua’s creation in Proverbs 8:22. It states, “Yahweh possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.” Many scholars believe that this passage is referring to the Messiah, as we do. If so, we see here that Yahweh “possessed” Yahshua in the beginning. This word comes from the Hebrew qanah, a primitive root. Strong’s defines this word as, “…to erect, i.e. create; by extension, to procure, especially by purchase (causatively, sell); by implication to own.” Notice that the primary meaning implies creation. This corroborates Colossians 1:15 and Revelation 3:14.

There are several issues believing that the Father and Son are the same being. For one, how do we explain the many passages showing the Son praying to or calling out to the Father? Was He speaking to Himself? Below are a few examples:

Matt 11:25: At that time Yahshua answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Sovereign of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Matt 26:42: He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

Luke 23:34: Then said Yahshua, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

Another issue is the Bible confirms that the Father is greater than the Son. If you have two beings, one greater and one lesser, how can they be the same? Consider the following:

John 10:29: My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.

John 14:29: Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

1Cor. 11:3: But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Messiah; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Messiah is Yahweh.

In addition, according to Acts 2:24, the Father resurrected the Son. If the Father and Son are one being, how did He resurrect Himself, assuming we believe that he literally died for our sins? Also, how is it possible that Father being immortal could die?

I know many explain this by stating that the Messiah was “God” manifested in the flesh and the Father was “God” manifested in the spirit. There is nothing in Scripture that confirms such a notion. This is the same human reasoning that led to the Trinity. When it comes to the relationship of the Father and Son, the Bible is clear: only the Father has immortality, the Father is greater than the Son, the Son was created, and the Father and Son are two separate beings.

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Brenda Robinson
6 years ago

Until coming in contact with YRM, I had never given consideration to whether Yahshua was created or not. I was taught that he was God just as the Father was God and therefore not created. However, I do not believe it is a salvation matter (meaning whether he was created or not does not change his role as our Redeemer). However, unless I am mistaken the same Greek word for “God” used John 1:1 “.. and the Word was God” is used in II Corinthians 4:4: ” in whom the “god” of this world has blinded the minds of the… Read more »

Chen Anhura
Chen Anhura
Reply to  YRM
6 years ago

Please help me understand this matter. I believe that Yahweh & Yahshuah are not co-equal & 2 separate beings & the father is greater than the son. But since Yahshuah exist in the beginning & through him & in him the world was created, and it also says the word was god; does it implies that he is not the father but he is also a divine being (essence of god but not the one true god). He belongs to a spiritual family of god that’s why he is included in the plural word “elohim”? Also in the Book of… Read more »

Reply to  Brenda Robinson
6 years ago

Please allow me to disagree somewhat with your comment regarding ….
‘’ I do not believe it is a salvation matter (meaning whether he was created or not does not change his role as our Redeemer).
iT does. We have sinned to God and only God can forgive us. Created gods are idolatrous, like the twelve created gods of Olympus which are for mythology only.
Gods cannot be created. Only idolatrous which are in thousands? We have man created gods that people made even them.